Let’s be absolutely crystal clear about this.

abbott hockey cormannIf you click on the official Prime Minister of Australia government page the first thing you will read is

“Over six years, Labor ran up a $667 billion debt on the nation’s credit card.”

Aside from wishing that the Prime Minister of Australia had a more visionary or engaging opening line, it is a bald faced lie and that isn’t a good way to convince people to trust you.

You will be subjected to a rolling slide show of Tony, Joe and Matthias, photographed in various serious looking poses.  Is anyone else getting sick of these photos of Tony sitting at tables with people surrounded by lots of booklets and oversize graphs?  Is that supposed to convince me that he knows what he is doing?  Because he has his photo taking wearing a white lab coat trying to look into a microscope am I to say oh well the $7 co-payment must be a good idea?

But back to the lie.

“Ran” indicates past tense – in fact Tony Abbott specifically states that this happened “over six years”.  What he fails to mention is that the figure of $667 billion was a projection for possible debt in ten years’ time from Hockey’s MYEFO report produced last December, and it included increased Coalition spending decisions like the $8.8 billion gift to the RBA and all the interest that will cost us, and the foregone revenue from the carbon and mining taxes, and changed assumptions about future unemployment – in other words it was a political exercise designed to come up with as big a number as they could so they could then justify draconian measures as they claim to be reducing it.

Using the term “nation’s credit card” is purely designed to cause fear.  The nation doesn’t have a credit card.  In fact we actually print money and can do so if we have to as they have done in the US.  Credit cards can get individuals into serious debt and the interest rate is crippling.  Using that term makes people think of that rather than a sensible understanding of how government finances work.

While the Coalition continues to peddle this lie I will continue to remind people of the truth because the Australian people have a right to know the real state of our finances.  And because nothing pisses me off more than getting lied to about important stuff.

So what is the truth?

The independent pre-election economic and fiscal outlook’s (PEFO) medium term projections, using long-standing methodology, show that on Labor’s policy settings the Budget reaches a modest surplus in 2016-17, surplus grows to 1% of GDP in 2020-21 and net debt returns to zero in 2023-24.

The latest Budget update shows net government debt for 2013-14 of $191.5bn, or 12.1% of Australia’s GDP (not $667 billion Mr Abbott). By contrast, net government debt in advanced economies around the world averages 74.7%, according to the International Monetary Fund.

Gross debt in 2023‑24 is projected to be $389 billion with surpluses projected to build to over one per cent of GDP by 2024-25.  There are no surpluses predicted over the forward estimates, there is a higher debt, and surplus of 1% 4 years later than predicted by PEFO using Labor policies.

After the GFC hit, the deficit peaked at $54.5bn, or 4.2% of GDP, in 2009-10 – less than half the advanced country average.  In 2012-13, the federal deficit was $18.8bn or 1.2% of GDP, compared to an advanced economy average of 4.9%.

The claim that Labor left “fiscal time bombs” and secret cuts and spending is another blatant lie.  In the 2013-14 Budget, Labor took the unprecedented step of releasing 10 year figures for the National Disability Insurance Scheme and Gonski school reforms, demonstrating how they were funded over the long term.  Those figures, as well as the efficiency dividends on the public service, were there for all to see.  The fact is that Tony’s election promises were made knowing this but, as we saw, working out how to pay for his promises was not on his mind.

Australia is one of only 10 economies in the world with AAA ratings from all three agencies – in the company of other countries with strong public finances like Germany, Canada, Sweden, Singapore and Switzerland. This status shows our finances are considered to be stronger than those of the vast majority of advanced economies – including the US, the UK, Japan, France and New Zealand.

Despite headlines to the contrary, and ill-informed statements by the Prime Minister, the agencies have confirmed our credit rating with a stable outlook.

I hesitate to compare government finances with individual or business finances, but I will say this.  When you go into significant debt, you usually aren’t looking to pay it off completely the next week.  The decision to go into debt is made by looking at your assets, your ability to service the debt, and the value of the investment of the debt.

We do need to make some changes.  There will never be a time when fine-tuning isn’t needed because we live in an ever-changing world with an often volatile global economy.  Situations change requiring adjustments to be made.

We are not in any sort of crisis.  We have the luxury to be able to do long term planning to meet the challenges of the future whereas so many other countries are having to make decisions for the short term as a matter of survival.

Tony Abbott is looking for a legacy for himself rather than for our nation.  He wants to say the debt was huge and I made it smaller and he doesn’t care if he has to lie about figures to make this look true.  If he really wanted to reduce debt why on earth would he stubbornly insist on his paid parental leave scheme?  Why wouldn’t he look at negative gearing and superannuation tax concessions and capital gains reductions?  Why would he buy 58 fighter jets that won’t be in service until sometime next decade?

The “Infrastructure Prime Minister” is building the Abbott Highway to Hell to speed up the path to destruction and he is more than happy to sacrifice anyone who can’t help him along his way.


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156 replies

  1. Don’t know about anyone else but I’ve stopped listening to anything they say. They have lied their way into office and think by continuing to lie they’ll get to stay there. I think they’re wrong in that assumption but whatever may come the depth of their deceit has been plain for all to see and I’m just not interested in wasting my time listening to more lies. To belt the bottom end of town the way they’ve done and still come up with a negligible improvement in the deficit also underlines their political ineptitude. So they are not only liars but stupid bloody liars as well. A double dissolution and the speedy demise of Abbott’s government would be wonderful but bar the second coming I can think of nothing that would surprise me more than these idiots getting a second term.

  2. Classic Tony Abbott:

  3. I have never listened or believed any of the propganda
    If something sounds to good to be true, usually it is
    Its designed to suck people in, and it did

    I always work on the theory and say to folk
    “If it is good to be true, stay right away from it, or come in spinner
    Take your pick matey”

  4. Kaye Lee:

    We are not in any sort of crisis. We have the luxury to be able to do long term planning to meet the challenges of the future whereas so many other countries are having to make decisions for the short term as a matter of survival.

    So why isn’t Labor shouting this from the rooftops? Very loudly???? They are lazily riding the wave of public outrage at the details of the budget…. rather than ATTACKING the government’s justification of the harsh measures.

    As long as a large portion of the electorate believes there IS a imminent deficit/debt “crisis” (caused by the Labor government) any debate will be on Abbott’s terms. Labor must change the game by exposing this budget’s rotten foundations.

  5. <

    From The Fitz Files :

    "A fellow arrives up at the pearly gates and is going through his screening by St Peter. He could not help but ask St Peter why he had all those clocks on the wall behind him. St Peter said: “My son they are lie clocks. They register every time you tell a lie. Take this one for example, it never once moved. It is Saint Teresa’s clock. Here’s another interesting one. It is the clock of Abraham Lincoln. It moved twice which means that in his whole life he only told two lies.”

    Our man was intrigued and asked: “St Peter, where is Tony Abbott’s clock?”

    “Oh, Jesus has it in his office. Uses it as a ceiling fan.”"

  6. So-called parameter variations accounted for 93 per cent of the deterioration in the budget between PEFO and MYEFO.

    Virtually every economic forecast that relates to revenue was revised down from PEFO.

    This raised eyebrows at the time of MYEFO, given that the most timely indicators of economic activity, such as business and consumer confidence, showed a strong post-election bounce, while housing and retail figures were starting to show the effect of low interest rates filtering through to increased demand.

    The critical nominal GDP figure for 2014-15, which most directly relates to the growth of Commonwealth revenues, was revised down by a full percentage point from PEFO to 3.5 per cent.

    Analysts at forecasting agency Deloitte-Access Economics see nominal GDP as more likely to grow by 4.7 per cent next financial year.

    On Treasury’s estimates, a one percentage point difference could mean a $5.5 billion difference in the budget bottom line.

    A cynical interpretation of this very weak MYEFO forecast is that it was intended to make the previous government look as bad as possible in its fiscal management, and give the new administration scope for an upside surprise.

    The latest budget forecast for the current financial year 2013-14 has got even worse – up a couple of billion dollars from MYEFO to $49 billion.

    Yet CommSec’s economists observe that recent Finance Department figures put the deficit in the year to March 31 at $34.8 billion, and that record deficits would need to be posted for the last three months of the year to see the budget meet Treasury’s expectations.

    Former Treasury official and now a forecaster with Macroeconomics, Stephen Anthony, says that even using the Government’s own economic forecasts, he would expect the deficit for 2013-14 to end up being in the low $40 billion range, due to economic improvements here and abroad over the past six months


  7. Great Article again, Kaye.
    Come on Labor, get the boot in, fight fire with fire, you now have the best opportunity you will ever get, Abbott et al are so on the nose with those who voted for them, they need to be encouraged by positive meaningful statements that can be backed up by real action.

  8. So really, just scrapping the tax concessions for high income super & scrapping the PHI rebate would probably all but get rid of the current deficit.

  9. “So why isn’t Labor shouting this from the rooftops?”

    Labor is screaming along with most of the economists and other experts. Not only in this country, but by many overseas.

    The real question seems to be, why are the likes of you and others not listening,

    The message is clear, there is no budget emergency. As Abbott said, he is willing to bring about a pause in consumer consumption to get his way. Yes, that is what he said yesterday..

    He seems to be saying, oboe can only have investment or consumer consumption. One cannot have both,.

    Maybe someone can tell me why not.

    That is the trouble with Abbott and his budgeting skills, he keeps putting forwarded proposition for his actions, hat just do not make sense.

    Why are the Libs out, including the treasurer and speaker out spending so much time raising monkey at this time. Could it be, they expect to have fight an election, or is it fore a massive advertisement campaign, defending the budget.\

    Surely Mr Murdoch will do their bidding for free,

  10. Yep, the $667B figure is a lie. The real figure, including interest is a tad over half a trillion dollars give or take ten billion or so. If I got a buck for every lie I heard from a politician from either side I could sail in luxury around the world more than once. They all are liars!

    The $8.8B to the RBA was a gift and the government pays the interest, eh? Got anything to back that statement up?

    The credit card thing is to make ordinary people understand but not a good analogy.

    I fell off my chair laughing when I read this: “In fact we actually print money and can do so if we have to as they have done in the US.” Ever heard of the Australian Office of Financial Management? Or issuing of Bonds and Treasury Notes to raise capital??

    I see that you compare government debt to GDP when in fact it should be compared to revenue which is somewhere in the vicinity of 70%. I’ve had this out, face to face with economists and have never lost the argument.

    Ah, net debt illusion. Do you know what so called assets are accounted for to reach the net figure? Here’s a clue…like saying your debt is low by accounting in an asset that won’t be available until the far distant future. Shoddy economics at best!

    You say: “Gross debt in 2023‑24 is projected to be $389 billion.” How did you arrive at that figure, considering our gross debt is a tad under $325B as of Friday? Gee, that illustrates borrowings of $64B in nine years…I wish.

    Oh, by the way…the carbon tax is a churn and the mining tax costs almost as much to administer as it brings in.

    Economics is like climate science, too many variables to make a reliable prediction. Also, ever heard of the economic cycle? Learnt that when I was a kid, it dictates that there is a correction every eight to ten years. Don’t see any reference to it in your post but plenty of copy and paste!

  11. There may be many reasons why the public failed to endorse Hockey’s brand new shiny budget. Here’s 2 of the bleeding obvious:

    1. Could be that he (Hockey) is not a good salesperson.

    2. Maybe budget is in complete contrast to election promises.

    I would suggest definitely the latter with a little bit of Hockey smugness thrown in.

    Abbott suggests that Australia will need time to accept budget.

    Someone tell ‘im ees dreamin’!

    Any budget that depends upon the lowest income people to lift the bulk of this burdensome budget is a lemon. Can’t be sold. Its an epic fail.

    If Labor, the Greens, the Big PUP and other assorted senators allow this budget to pass…. crikey words fail, for many people life won’t be worth the struggle.

  12. <

    Whoops !

    "scaper" has slipped out from the dunces corner and is now making a fool of himself.

    Its always raining economics on "scapers" head.

  13. Reblogged this on I Want To Speak and commented:
    Great post by Kaye Lee

    (I did not contribute to this article).

  14. Senator Wong in good form this morning on Insiders.

    I believe that Hockey will get his wish,. Yes, Labor I already putting up alternatives to his budget.

  15. Maybe Hockey’s problem is not that he is a poor salesman, but he has a lemon to sell.

  16. I’m sorry Kaye Lee but your statement, “In fact we actually print money and can do so if we have to as they have done in the US.” is wrong. WE don’t and neither does our government, the RBA does.

    “In 1924, the Commonwealth Bank Act was amended and the Bank was given control over the note issue.”

    This doesn’t seem to be much of a problem until you think about the fact that the RBA is a privately owned institution (as is the case in the US and virtually every other country), and it is to them that the money is owed…

  17. Jon,

    The Bank is a body corporate wholly owned by the Commonwealth of Australia.


  18. I know. And The Commonwealth of Australia is a publicly listed company with the US securities and Exchange commission…


  19. You do so much dancing scaper you make me dizzy.

    The $389 billion figure comes from the government page.


    If I quoted a wrong figure elsewhere I apologise.

  20. Jon,

    Does the listing mean that people can buy our bonds? Are you suggesting that this gives them some ownership dividend beyond the interest we agree to pay them?

    I’m not really interested in reading large swathes of the constitution, particularly coming from an unofficial source. Is there something specific you wish to discuss?

  21. I hope you’ve got your tin foil hat firmly in place Jon 😆

  22. Firstly, please know that I am in NO way a fan of Abbott. (Or, to be honest, our political system in general. The only thing we get to choose, is which puppets the puppet masters (big business mainly) will play with. IMHO).

    I’m unsure what the listing means as far as people being able to buy our bonds or even shares in the company, but surely whoever “owns” this company would indeed be receiving dividends.

    I just see the listing on the sec website as SERIOUSLY. DODGY. I truly hope that I’m wrong and that our reserve bank is indeed run by the government, but I don’t believe that this is the case.

  23. Relax Jon. We own the RBA at the moment but if one of Tony’s banker mates has a word Lord knows – it could hit the privatisation list. (That was a joke Jon).

    We issue bonds (borrow money) at a set rate maturing in a certain time. All we will pay is this face value plus agreed interest. These bonds can then be traded – people can sell them for more than they cost them – this is called the market value. In the case of Australia, the market value of our bonds exceeds the face value (actual debt) because we are seen as such a stable good investment.

  24. Bacchus; No, no it’s not. The voices told me it would attract too much attention…

  25. Apologies, but what makes you so certain? The US federal reserve is privately owned. And we aren’t that dis-similar, in all reality, to the US.

  26. Fed up:

    Labor is screaming along with most of the economists and other experts. Not only in this country, but by many overseas.

    The real question seems to be, why are the likes of you and others not listening…

    Oh, but I am listening. Really, really hard. With every fibre of my being. To the point where I get disheartened. I listen for any whisper of a Labor offensive on the basis of this budget. I read and read… looking for someone from the opposition to challenge Hockey’s justification. I pray for Labor to announce there IS NO imminent debt/deficit “crisis” to warrant such a harsh and unfair budget. But so far, all I see is Shorten denouncing the unpopular measures and little else. I see Labor attacking the “what” of the budget, but ignoring the “why”. No debate on “why” it’s (apparently) Labor’s mess!

    Please, please, Fed up… if you have seen or heard anything by Labor LOUDLY attacking the dodgy foundations of the budget… please let me know. I could use some cheering up…

  27. That is also incorrect. The federal reserve exists due to an act of congress. It’s main function is as a clearing house for all the member banks. The reason you think it is privately owned is because of the issuance of stock by the regional Fed banks to the member banks. This stock pays a fixed 6% dividend and gives the banks a claim on the Fed’s annual profits. But let’s keep this in the right perspective. Last year the Fed earned $90.5B. Of this, $1.6B was paid out in dividends. The remaining $88B was remitted back to the US Treasury. While the US Treasury doesn’t technically own shares in the Federal Reserve the Fed is required to remit its profits at the end of the year back to the Federal Government. As you can see, remittance often dwarfs any dividends paid back to the banks. In other words, the US Treasury is the recipient of most of the Fed’s profits.

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/who-actually-owns-the-federal-reserve-2013-10#ixzz32hX773qk

  28. I note Abbott, is intent on finding the lost jet, no time limit as to how long this will take other than to go for eternity in expenditure to find this plane, surely the cost of this search is in the region of millions of dollars daily? is Abbott, mad? or has his inflated ego distorted reality? the fact that the lost jet is now a sea burial, is it useful to dive for the skeletons for a land burial? when the living are faced with the hardship of medical expenses?

  29. Refreshing to read an actual account of australias Economy and not bare faced Lies. Thank you.

  30. Both Chris Bowen and Wayne Swann have written articles stating that the Liberals take on the australian debt is farcical and an attempt to show that Labor wrecked the australian Economy.How do we get a AAA rating if we are in such dire straits?

  31. What so many people fail to realise is that Australia debt is FOREIGN debt and it’s in US Dollars, some silly sods compare our debt to other countries but places like England and the US their debt is domestic debt. As soon as our dollar drops back to $0.70US our debt and interest will grow by around 50%, not a good position to be in, it’s critical we return to surplus in the budget and begin paying off this labor generated debt. To do otherwise is economic suicide, it amazing me we get economic advice from Labor supporters who by definition are not successful people economically wise.

  32. Thanks for a great article.
    I briefly caught a discussion on Sky News with Hockey this morning and at the end he was confronted with the $600B+ lie.
    Unsatisfactory reply but clearly the table was convinced the number was wrong / a lie.
    Some progress perhaps.

  33. monkey – money\\May 25, 2014 • 1:31 pm

    May 25, 2014 • 1:31 pm

    Sorry for the errors.

  34. mars08, sorry I have no explanation why you are not hearing, what is being said, loud and clear every day. Maybe you are listening in the wrong places. Even so, much is cut and pasted here with ;links, Maybe you do not bother to follow them

    We can only take people to the water. We cannot make them read or drink.

    Sorry Labor and some here cannot do better.

  35. “While the Coalition continues to peddle this lie I will continue to remind people of the truth because the Australian people have a right to know the real state of our finances. And because nothing pisses me off more than getting lied to about important stuff.”
    And I hope you pick up a few new believers every time you do, Kaye !

  36. Fascinated to see how people are still claiming Labour generated debt, when economists world wide and several major banking institutions are agreed, that the basis of the long term increase in debt comes from when riding the highs back during Howards time in office we were given tax cuts on several occasions. MOst of these sources state that these tax cuts, while being a nice feel good thing that all of us are guilty of happily accepting, we to lead in the long term to shortfalls when the mining boom finally fell. In fact I remember and article, I believe it may have been in the SMH back in the early 00’s by an economist stating that the tax cuts being offered were a bad fiscal idea and in the long term would likely be unsustainable. BUT funny, this seems to have been forgotten. I agree, there is need to trim the fat, BUT NOT in a way that shifts the onus of responsibility onto those whom cannot afford it, while those asking us to take the load are photographed waving cigars in the air, and smiling… Sorry that does NOT suggest an equal load to all.

  37. KEN Henry: In 2000-2001 … the commonwealth budget revenue was 26 per cent of gross domestic product … Today, that’s down at 23 per cent … the projected budget deficit … in 2013-2014 is, guess what: three percentage points of GDP, right? And which is another way of saying if we had the same revenue collections today as we had in 2000-2001, guess what: there would be no budget deficit … but we don’t …

    and after last year’s budget….

    “The income tax cuts from 2005-06 cost this year’s budget about $40 billion. If those tax cuts had not occurred, this week’s budget would have been a surplus, not a $19.4 billion deficit.”

  38. Asking Tony Abbott to tell the truth is like asking Bronwyn Bishop to become a caring human being. Or Kevin Andrews to say a belated sorry to Dr Haneef. Or Peter Reith to stop pretending that children were ever really thrown over board. Or those who were there to forget that Peter Costello DID once march in a protest rally against Fraser and Howard – and I was there.

  39. This is getting ridiculous.

    Headline in the Herald a few hours ago

    “Joe Hockey signals GP fee could be up for negotiation”

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/joe-hockey-signals-gp-fee-could-be-up-for-negotiation-20140525-zrnhl.html#ixzz32hmpECHW

    Headline in the Australian a few hours ago

    “Senate stoush looms as Joe Hockey refuses to compromise on $7 GP co-payment ”


  40. Wazza: What so many people fail to realise is that Australia debt is FOREIGN debt and it’s in US Dollars,

    Care to back that up? Australian Govt bonds are traded on the ASX and denominated in AUD as far as I can tell. In fact the ASX website tells us that they have a face value which is adjusted by the CPI, so that the interest paid will vary every time. If that is correct, your argument is rubbish. Calling people “silly sods” is not a help either way.

  41. Thanks Totaram. I thought Wazza was wrong but I wasn’t certain. The other aspect is that while we issue bonds, we also buy them from other countries – hence the difference between net debt and gross debt. If we are incorrect Wazza I would appreciate a link that explains where you got your info from.

    “it amazing me we get economic advice from Labor supporters who by definition are not successful people economically wise”

    What a ridiculous comment to make. You know nothing about my financial situation. I have given no financial advice. I have merely pointed out that we are being lied to and tried to correct the lies by giving the figures from Hockey’s own budget as opposed to his media releases.

    And as for Labor vs Coalition,

    We got through the GFC and PEFO shows Labor had a better path back to surplus than this mob. Mind you, Hockey is lying about how bad it is so expect an amazing turnaround before the next election. Lo and behold the figures weren’t as bad as we thought.

  42. There are a few different types of bonds issued by the Federal Government, of which two are traded on the ASX. Of the two traded on the ASX, one has a fixed interest rate and the other has a variable rate determined by the CPI (http://australiangovernmentbonds.gov.au/etbs/treasury-bonds/). All Federal Government bonds are denominated in Australian dollars.

    Oh, by the way Kaye, the government does not spend by “printing money”. This is a very common, and often repeated, misconception.

  43. Yes Ralph I know…almost as silly as saying we use a credit card. I agree with those who have pointed this out and will refrain from saying it in the future. Thanks so much for the info re bonds.

  44. This is the borrowed Debt from the GFC

    Borrowed Debt ………………..Interest

    2013……….. $347Billion……$13Billion
    2014……….. $387B…….. $14B
    2015……….. $421B…….. $16B
    2016……….. $460B…….. $17B
    2017……….. $475B…….. $18B

    We never needed to borrow. We could have created that amount against the public credit. If we did that would not be paying the interest. Simply all that would have been required is the RBA to do its job and manage inflation.

    Our Constitution is unique. It allows us to create all the funds required by government against the Public credit. So when we go over in expenditure all that is required is either increases in revenue or cuts in expenditure. Rudd didn’t have to borrwo shit, but since they never understand that then at the very least borrow against Super & Pension funds.

    67% of the above dbet is Government Bonds held by foreign private investors.

    The below is part of expenditure and at the moment is at nothing

    It is called “Contingency reserve”

    2013 – $0
    2014 – $-793million
    2015 – $773million
    2016 – $4.2billion
    2017 – $6billion
    2018 – $9.7billion

    # This is the WAR fund. Is Tony Abbot planning something???? $9billion per year by 2018


  45. I do find it astonishing that people like Jason continue to talk about debts and borrowing that haven’t happened are Labor’s fault. Jason’s figures start in 2013….ummmm….anything after that is up to the Coalition. that’s why you elected them remember?

    Your figures disagree with the budget btw. Do you have a more reliable source than the budget papers about our current debt?

  46. I got those figures from the budget by the way. Kaye Lee.

  47. it amazing me we get economic advice from Labor supporters who by definition are not successful people economically wise.

    No “Wazza” – what is amazing is how one person can get SO much wrong in just one small post. As pointed out above, Australian debt is issued in AUD. wrt your above mindless assertion, perhaps you’d care to research the academic qualifications of the current and former member for Rankin 😉 for a start. While the Lieberals are full of failed lawyers, Labor actually has many members with economic credentials…

  48. The Commonwealth of Australia is listed on NYSE for legal reasons relating to the capacity for trade and to be treated an an “Individual” in courts of law. The RBA is owned by the Commonwealth. It sure ain’t owned by any government. From time to time Governments act like they own the RBA and other bodies created under the constitution but they don’t. We do. We, the citizens of the Commonwealth are the owners, governments are the custodians of our resources, physical, intellectual and monetary.

    Now, as for the lies…

  49. The contingency reserve is a bucket of money reserved for decisions taken but as yet not announced by government, decisions too late to be included in portfolio estimates and so on…it currently has to cover Tony’s stupid PPL amongst other things, and it is most definitely not at zero. truly….what budget document are you supposedly reading?

    I don’t know what part of the budget you are looking at. those figures are not what I see.

    Table 1: Projections of Commonwealth Government Securities on issue subject to the Treasurer’s Direction – (doesn’t that mean Joe decides how much he wants to borrow now that he is after all…Treasurer? and if this borrowing is GFC related, please explain how?)

    Face value – within-year peak($b)
    2013‑14 330
    2014‑15 370
    2015‑16 410
    2016‑17 450
    2017‑18 470

  50. Reblogged this on THE VIEW FROM MY GARDEN and commented:

    Aside from wishing that the Prime Minister of Australia had a more visionary or engaging opening line, it is a bald faced lie and that isn’t a good way to convince people to trust you.

  51. Fed up:

    We can only take people to the water. We cannot make them read or drink.

    I don’t know why you want to put me in that category.

    Of course this site, and others have plenty of good information about the outrage over this budget. For course there’s a wealth of articles about the harshness and cruelty in Hockey’s plans. Of course there are many politicians stating that the heavy lifting is NOT being shared by all Australians. I read the articles, I know there is real, deep anger about the dishonesty of the Abbott government.

    Many politicians and journalists have looked at the budget and decided that it is horrible They are doing a good job at pointing out WHAT is wrong with it. But I am still very worried about how rarely I hear of anyone CHALLENGE THE NEED for such harsh measures. THAT is my concern. THAT is how Labor is leaving itself exposed. THAT is where Labor is weakening in bargaining position with the government. Until there is a concentrated campaign by Labor to explain that there is NO apocalyptic debt/deficit crisis… they will be fighting with one arm tied behind their backs.

    Now… if I’ve missed a bunch of politicians questioning the existence of the “debt and deficit disaster” (aka Labor’s mess) please let me know. It would really help my morale.

  52. Your a bit of a tosser Kaye Lee aren’t you. The figures are total expenditure round, not the debt alone because the government is including the debt & deficit in it’s figures, aswell as assets under construction. Seriously the figures you present and mine are so similar. I

    think you just liek picking fights with your fellow Australian’s. Why do people feel it is there duty to defend the government, whether it is labor or liberal. Neither give a stuff about you.

    “I do find it astonishing that people like Jason continue to talk about debts and borrowing that haven’t happened are Labor’s fault”

    That debt you just refered to is the carry over bonds outstanding combined with the Deficit that Rudd issued.

  53. Thanks Jason. you have just relieved me from any desire to converse with you further. If you care to provide a source for your figures….something specific rather than “the budget”… then I will be happy to look at it. Otherwise, I do not understand why you are wasting your time here.

  54. Your (sic) a bit of a tosser Kaye Lee aren’t you.

    I do not understand why you are wasting your time here.

    It’s called ‘projection’ Kaye 😉

  55. Jason abuse is the weapon of the weak and intellectually challenged. Kaye is eating you alive logically so all you can revert to is abuse. Not a good look.

  56. I wonder how many of the people taking part in this discourse are aware that Australia, like most other countries in the world, uses a fiat currency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money)

    An intrinsic property of a fiat currency (with a floating exchange rate) is that the issuer can have as much, or as little, as it likes. This does not mean that a currency issuing government can, in reality, spend as much as it likes but it changes the conversation we need to have about Federal Government spending.

    A Federal Government budget surplus is not necessarily a good thing nor is it necessarily a bad thing. The same can be said for a budget deficit. The real answer is that both depend on the state of the economy at the time.

    For those with enough of an interest to understand this further I suggest reading the following link. http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=14044

  57. What was that attack on Tim today. Saying he believed the PM’s wife should be using her position to do more charity work, Where is the abuse in that, just a opinion from where I sit., I see, no one is allowed to say nothing about this PM or his family.

    I believe that Tim did not have an easy time, while Julia was PM. Did he not have to give up his own employment. Finding a role to fill was hard. Yes, the mob was ever ready to attack.

    Tim should have told the reporters to get lost. Instead it seems, he was silly enough to talk to them.

    As for Margie, I am of the belief that we elect a PM. Not a PM and partner. She should be allowed to live her life

    There is nothing in what Tim said that warrants wharf the Telegraph produced today. Saying you believe someone should be doing more, is an opinion, not abuse.,

    What was on that front page, and inside that paper is.

  58. Stephen Tardrew:

    Jason abuse is the weapon of the weak and intellectually challenged…

    Hey ease up there chief!!! I resemble that remark!

  59. I want to print this article out and super glue it to the face of everyone who keeps trying to parrot that “but Labor left the country in a financial mess” bollocks that the Coalition desperately wants people to believe.

    They may find it difficult to read – it being so close to their faces and all – but with any luck they’ll fucking suffocate.

  60. You can all have debates about the Non existing Debt crisis, But the Bottom line is and will always be HE Lied and continues To LIE How can anybody trust this Man ?, I see that today there is Mention about compromises with the crossbenchers etc Being dealt with by Peta Because as we KNow He is absolutely Useless at striking a deal, He failed big time with the Famous three Independents Just who could possibly believe a Solemn Oath ,written in Blood , Dead Buried and Cremated vow From his Lips, The PRIME Minister of this Country Is a Proven liar time after time , An Absolute Disgrace You can Keep all your Fancy Figures Because without Truth and Honesty from Our Leader everything is Meaningless , Bring up your children by telling them its Ok to tell lies as long as you win , This Man will be remembered as The worst of all politicians every day is a new tale , And sadly he is still out there Lying Picking on the Grey Army was a Great Big Mistake

  61. I understand the frustration. Could I suggest car windscreens, bathroom mirrors, and the back of toilet doors. Would hate to see you adding to the profits of Serco or whoever it is that runs our gaols nowdays.

  62. Wazza, even Clive Palmer says that the debt crisis is a complete fabrication. If you watch his budget reply, he showed numerous graphs comparing our financial position to other OECD countries. We’re in good shape.

  63. AH guilt is a wonderful thing Mars8 but you is cool.

  64. Greg:

    So true however we do need ammo to fire at this deceptive troglodyte.

  65. Abbott is just a blatant liar. Nothing more, nothing less.

  66. damn I love you guys….. LOVE YA’S…. AIMN for PM

  67. You leave me breathless Kaye Lee with your calm logic. No wonder the little bovver boys who pop up on this site come across so desperately and rudely. It means you are doing a great service in keeping the facts up to us. Thank you.

  68. Only the one comment – yes, we do print our own money. And yes, we could print more of it to try and buy our way out of any troubles. Not much of an idea though – been done often enough else and the same thing every time – inflation skyrockets as fast as you keep printing more.

  69. ausross,

    You can continue repeating that lie as much as you like. Doesn’t make it anywhere near correct though 🙄

  70. I thought it was a good article, I have my opinions on the figures but am not an economist or could say anything more to add to what has been written (in the article and the comments, from both point of views). I can say it is obvious that presenting figures using different references will always paint a different picture. The facts that I do understand, like this government is made up by a group of heartless, lying, out of touch elitists, makes me lean towards believing everything they say is actually not the truth and most likely incorrect.

  71. Thank you, Kaye for your clear and accurate piece. It raises a whole bunch of perspectives from this Aussie living in Europe, and I hope people care to read it.

    For those commentators complaining that Labor is not not making the actual state of Australia’s economy clear, ie that they are merely attacking the budget and not are not making the case for Australia’s good economic standing when they handed over power please refer to the full version of Bill Shorten’s budget reply and Chris Bowen’s National Press Club address. (Links provided below)

    Now if I can get the full picture of Labor’s response from Athens, Greece – where I do not have access (for the most part) to Australian TV and radio content, you guys living in Australia who can’t find the fullness of of Labor’s have no excuses. I agree with Kaye and others – the information is ALL there, and not hard to find. It is significant to note that when Shorten gave a list of reasons backed up with evidence of Australia’s good economic standing (including the AAA rating from 3 agencies and us being one of ten countries in this category) the Libs in the House started heckling him loudly. Shouting him down. This is what nasty liars do when they are being outed and can’t bear to hear the truth.

    A big picture view: As an ex-pat Aussie living in Europe, where austerity policies have trashed the EU periphery countries’ economies, and the short, medium and long term economic outlook is precarious to say the least, I looked on in absolute stunned amazement during Labor’s term in office, when Australians fell prey to this blatant LIE that the Labor was mismanaging the economy, racking up too much debt, the budget emergency etc For goodness’ sake! Australia is the envy of the western world in terms of its economy generally, and successfully navigating its way through the global financial crisis, specifically. When I visited Australia last (August 2013) and was exposed to this farcical narrative pervading the national conversation, I just shook my head and concluded that many people must be living in a bubble and totally out of touch with reality. That is what it felt like to me.

    Please don’t take this as an attack, it is not intended as one. I love Australia, I vote, and I care about the direction it takes, regardless of the fact that I choose to live abroad. I am merely offering my view on a specific issue being thrashed out in this thread, which, may I suggest, has a degree of perspective not available to those of you who not living in Europe. And it has been woefully reported in the Australian media and that hasn’t helped Australians get a perspective, either. So fair enough.

    However, it is still the case that not enough Australians, regardless of their political leaning, have the ability to look at all how their country is faring in an international context. Context is everything, sometimes. Not only is Australia doing well economically, not at all at risk, and with the luxury to do long term economic planning and not short term emergency measures, it’s economic standing is fantastic even in the midst of a GFC, that, contrary to what many commentators are saying, is not over yet.

    How sad that Murdoch owns 70% of Australia’s metropolitan media and so many Australians became brainwashed about the real state of the nation’s economy, and fell into the trap of hating on Julia Gillard as well. Instead of being grateful and proud of our government’s sound economic management and positive future outlook, too many rushed to vote LNP. Perhaps this horror show of a government is a gift in disguise. If the LNP manage to apply their wrecking ball to enough of Australia’s enviable social democracy, Australians may finally wake up en masse and realise what they had.

    Finally, for an understanding of where Abbott, Hockey et al are coming from, look no further than neo-liberal economics, which Thatcher (and Reagan) got from Pinochet. That is, it comes from FASCISM and not DEMOCRACY. It features endless austerity measures, loss of labour rights, mass privatisation of public assets, especially taking an axe to public education and health; and generally slugging the middle and working class with policies that deliver an ever increasing cruelty. What you are seeing is ideologically driven economic policy. They have just gotten started and will keep going until Australia’s social democracy is mortally wounded, unless Labor and the Greens manage to stop them.

    Here’s something to note: Abbott was known for three things at Oxford: being a monarchist, a Thatcherite and a boxer. Pity he got a few too many knocks to the head.

    Bill Shorten’s Budget Reply: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrxAlX6aOy8

    Chris Bowen’s national Press Club Address: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8duTscmf1g

  72. Bacchus, ausross is perfectly correct in stating that inflation rises when we print more money.

    Nice article, few more points I can add to my standard response when people start with the whole “but labor left us in so much debt…”.

    Sadly I haven’t seen much from the shadow cabinet in the media about the fallacies of Tony Abbott, my only hope is they are sitting tight waiting for something in particular before they unleash? We can only hope…

  73. Kaye, that source to back up your claim that the Reserve Bank isn’t privately owned is vague and in fact looks like a red herring in comparison with my own research on the subject; which points to the FED being privately owned by a banking cartel led by the Rothschilds in Europe and the Rockefellers in the US. To say that it’s merely a ‘clearing house’ seems woefully euphemistic.

  74. Rattus,

    I have heard those conspiracy theories many times and they are not true. As I explained, member banks can buy shares which return them a 6% dividend. If the banking cartels have any more ownership than that why did they give Treasury $88 billion of their $90.5 billion profit in 2012?

    I know a lot has been written about this Rattus but that particular claim just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny

  75. Aussie Expat in Greece, I am also an Aussie Expat in but in Malaysia and I couldn’t agree more regarding access to information. For me it’s actually easier to access independent media than mainstream. The independents direct me to information that many at home wouldn’t know about, for instance it was Kaye Lee, if I recall, that first alerted me to PEFO / MYEFO which I looked up and studied in total disbelief. I have attempted to alert many people of it’s significance and relevance, it’s proof of the intentional deceit of the Abbott Government. I’ve shared so many articles from many sources including the ABC’s fact checking of doubling the budget to back up the PEFO MYEFO statements. Honestly, I don’t think many Australians want to know they voted for scumbags. Social media is rife with unsubstantiated claims and accusations. I’ve asked if people have watched Chris Bowen’s press club address only to be hammered with abuse, but no they haven’t watched it. Other than the independent news media I do get Australian Network here and turn my phone off on Monday nights for Q n A. I have often thought that perhaps I am more informed in Malaysia than most Aussie at home.
    Kaye Lee thank you and keep hitting nails on heads.

  76. The thing that never fails to astonish me is the cognitive dissonance shown by Coalition voters. One of Joe Hockey’s first steps as treasurer was to raise the debt ceiling to $500 billion because the current limit of $300 billion was going to be reached in December. This was in all the papers, discussed widely. Yet a month or two later, Abbott and Hockey are able to sell the lie that Labor let a debt of $667 billion. C’mon kids….

  77. exactly Kaye ……. C’MON!!! It’s exasperating………aaaarrrrrggggghhhh

  78. kayla,

    The other frustrating thing is that the media is saying that the Coalition have already cut $300 billion from the debt because they will only owe $389 billion in ten years time. This “saving” comes from, as you know, inflating the debt to start with and then cutting it by screwing the sick, poor, unemployed, disabled, elderly and students.

    Everyone seems overjoyed about the medical research fund which gobsmacks me. They purposely attached it to the co-payment – if you want research you must pay. What a load of crap. They are going to collect $20 billion from us to put in a slush fund that they will sit on to make their bottom line look better. This money should be being used, not saved to dole out the interest to Tony’s polly pedal sponsoring pharma buddies. The implementation of the co-payment is going to be a nightmare. So much for cutting red tape.

  79. A few people know these facts ,but getting the general public to accept it is like talking to a brick wall, they don’t want to know .I haven’t heard Bill Shorten say one word about this ,is and that is why the public believe the Liberals .

  80. ausross said: “inflation skyrockets as fast as you keep printing more.”

    Prior to the GFC, the Federal Reserve in the U.S. held around $800bn in Treasury notes (bonds). They currently hold around $4 trillion dollars worth of Treasury notes due to their quantitative easing program. (http://useconomy.about.com/od/glossary/g/Quantitative-Easing.htm)

    The current U.S. inflation rate is around 2%. This is hardly what you would call skyrocketing.

    Increasing the money supply certainly can cause increased inflation but it is not a given.

  81. My partner took our 8 year old daughter to a classmates birthday party on the weekend. During discussion with the other parents, the hostess mother started spewing pure bile about the labor party that exactly parroted what has been written in the murdoch media, and from LNP soundbites on the ABC. It was literally almost verbatim. She then noticed a couple of late teenage people walking down the street smoking and exclaimed ‘see! slackers right there too lazy to work, whinging about no dole, yet they can still afford to smoke! I’m glad abbott is sorting those ungrateful slobs out’. My partner was astonished at the pure hatred in her voice towards these young people, and pointed out that maybe they do work, how would you know – and they might buy cigarettes with their own money? This women would not be convinced, and my partner started to be verbally derided by other parents there – I strongly doubt she is on the list for next years birthday party. The vitriol of the brainwashed is unbelievable.

  82. I hope the ALP doesn’t continue to do what it’s been doing for the last 6 years – just let the lies go past in the hope that the public is smart enough to figure out the truth.

    This time they really need to call Abbott out on every lie- especially this one because it will taint them politically for a long time to come.

    He gained a lot of ground because they took it all on the chin.

    It”s time they stood up to this particular bully.

  83. OnceGreatNation,

    The Coalition have become so confusing that their supporters just accept them on faith and protect them with religious fervour. Any examination of facts would be too much for them to bear.

    Speaking of confusion…..

    The Abbott government is introducing new fees for PhD students to compensate for millions of dollars in cuts to the $677 million Research Training Scheme.

    Ms Robinson says these and other changes to higher education, including higher HELP interest rates changes and government cuts, will ”serve as a major disincentive to those contemplating a research degree”.

    ”Universities can provide scholarships to PhD students if they choose to do so,” Mr Pyne said.

    In other clashing budget measures, the Abbott government is freezing funding for the $160 million ”family relationships services” programs, while simultaneously Social Services Minister Kevin Andrews has been promoting his $20 million ”relationship vouchers” policy.

    Labor’s social services spokeswoman Claire Moore said she was concerned about the indexation freeze – which amounts to a cut – to ”family relationship services”, adding that the programs provide ”a really valuable service to parents and children who are at their most vulnerable”.

    Family relationship services include support services for families experiencing difficulties, counselling and children’s contact services.

    Senator Moore also questioned why programs that showed ”no evidence of any problems” were suffering and said she did not believe initiatives such as the relationship counselling vouchers would adequately compensate.

    Mr Andrews said the Coalition had frozen the ”family relationship services” program to ”help repair the budget left in such a mess by the former Labor government”.

    Mr Andrews’ $20-million relationships vouchers trial will run for a year, giving as many as 100,000 couples a $200 voucher for relationship education and counselling.

    The Abbott government is pausing indexation and culling cyber-safety programs, after declaring them to be areas of particular interest to the government.

    While cutting these programs the government is simultaneously injecting $10 million of new money for children’s online safety, including the establishment of a Children’s E-Safety Commissioner.

    Talk about mixed messages. We will get rid of anything that Labor started and we will start our own same but not as good thing from scratch.

  84. Allot of people here keep harping on about labour not attacking the governments lies particularly about the state or the economy.

    What you forget is that the media in this country is completely biased in favour of the conservatives and so progressive opponents don’t get the air time or have their statements misrepresented or ridiculed.

    The media in this country is an enemy to our democracy as without their unwavering support, through lies and missinformation this government, would never have been elected.

    The media is the enemy we need to fight first. The government will inevitably implode on its own without their propaganda arm. They will be shown for the heartless and corrupt people they are.

    The only way to fight the media is to not read they papers or web sites, don’t watch their TV shows or have subscriptions to their pay TV companies and don’t support companies or products who advertise with them. Encourage everyone you know to do the same and if enough people do the media will either listen or disappear.

    You also need to demand changes to the media ownership laws to restrict foreign ownership and reduce the concentration of media ownership we have in this country. This is the only way ordinary Australian will get their country back from the corrupt and the vested interests.

  85. “In fact we actually print money” – this is misleading. The vast majority of money is created through debt – ie. the promise to pay money in the future. The interest and principle on this government debt has to be paid via taxes collected in the future.

    Comparing our debt situation to other developed countries in the world and concluding we are in good shape is also misleading. Most of the developed countries are basket cases due to their governments spending and debt and this is precisely the situation Australia should avoid. Japan government took on loads of government debt bailing out its banks in the 90s and has never really recovered. US government bailed out its banks during the GFC as did Ireland, UK. Greece, Italy Spain the list goes on. These developed economies are in crisis and this is what we need to avoid.

    if we want to maintain our living standards for future generations in Australia we must ensure our welfare, health and education systems are supported by taxes, not debt, so that the systems are sustainable.

  86. What gets up my nose, is information being misused. Given meanings that are not true.

    A favourite of the government at t=is time, is that we have the fastest rate of debt in the OECD countries. Yes, that is true. What they forget to add, that the rate of increase is from the lowest debt in the same countries. If one starts from a low base, it does not imply what the government suggests. If I have ten dollars debt, and borrow another ten, it makes little difference to my ability to manage the debt. If my debt is 100,000 and I borrow another 100,000 , I would be in big trouble.

  87. Another is hearing, every time a minister raise his head, h they are reparking the government after six years of Labor waste.

    Yes, we now know what the waste is.

    Yes, any assistance given to lower income earners. All these people must now take on the government debt and responsibilities.

    Any money spent to create a fair and equitable society is seen as waste.

    Any money spent of providing the physical an human infrastructure for the future,

    The worker must pay, to provide the skills that industry and the nation needs to go forwarded.

    Yes, this wealthy country can no longer afford to provide for it’s ill. Can no longer look after it’s vulnerable.

    Can no longer afford to educate it’s workers.

    I am confused why we pay taxes. Surely it is not to keep the wealthy in the lifestyle they have come accustom to, and to what they are entitled.

  88. Bowen talking in the lower house. For those who wish to hear what Labor has to say. Also senate hearings reveal must.

  89. It appears that the treasury analysis saying the budget did not affect families as reported, There is no treasury analysis. Another lie.

  90. Any analysis, I believe should have been included in the budget papers, were found there in the past. Remember all those graphs one seen on budget day, telling each group how they are affected. A fortnight later, after this government, one is still trying to work out how each is affected.

    Yes, Bowen is doing his job.

  91. Tanya now speaking in the lower house/

  92. unless the opposition and govener general push the barrow of a confidentiality vote the senate is only able to block so much and when the sad fact remains everyone wants him gone surely the consensus now is the majority want him out get of your hands and fight for it to happen

  93. Tanya just said, it is not clear if this government is aware of what this budget is doing. Spot on, I believe Tanya.

    Could one say, forgive them, as they know not what they do.

  94. Mr Dutton, that two dollars does not supply support for the doctors. That two dollars is the cost, that doctors pay,. to collect your seven dollars.

  95. ausross is perfectly correct in stating that inflation rises when we print more money.

    Sorry Revell – empirical data doesn’t support your discredited hypothesis. Perhaps you could explain the US situation and how “printing money” has affected inflation? Then you could move onto Japan. Perhaps an analysis of why the European situation with Greece Portugal, Italy and Spain differs from the US & Australian experience? Do you even understand that there is a profound difference?

    Once we’ve finished laughing at your attempts there, perhaps you could explain the principle of “crowding out” and how increasing government debt inevitably leads to higher interest rates 😆

    Before you do though, you may like to study what has actually happened in the real world in recent times… 😉

  96. Kathryn King now talking in lower house.

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